Showing posts with label 4th Hussars. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 4th Hussars. Show all posts

Friday, June 26, 2009

Thomas Pateman, 4th (Queen's Own) Hussars


Thomas and Alfred Pateman. both serving with the 4th (Queen's Own) Hussars, arrived in France on 15th August 1914. I think it likely that Thomas Pateman, six years older than Alfred, joined the 4th Hussars in 1900. His number - 4582 - dates either to early 1900 or to around July 1909. In 1900, he would have been about 21 years old and it seems more likely that he would have joined up as a young man in his twenties rather than as a thirty year old. You can read more about army service numbers between 1881 and 1918 on another of my blogs. 

Both Alfred and Thomas survived the First World War, Thomas ending the war as a decorated Sergeant Major who had been Mentioned in Dispatches (MiD) and awarded the Military Medal. The "Em" and "Emblem" references in his medal index card above, refer to his MiD. The medal index card is Crown Copyright, downloaded from the Ancestry.co.uk website.


On the 13th January 2021, Thomas Pateman's medals, above, with an estimate of between £500 and £600 were sold at auction by Dix Noonan Webb for £2,400.

Tuesday, June 23, 2009

Alf Pateman - when did he join up?


Alfred Pateman was born in Chailey in 1889 and he was certainly in uniform before the start of the First World War. His medal index card at the National Archives indicates that he was overseas with the 4th Hussars as early as 15th August 1914; an Old Contemptible although he appears not to have claimed the bar to his 1914 Star - the "clasp and roses" so often mentioned on medal index cards of the First World War. But when did Alf enlist?

Alf Pateman's service record does not appear to have survived, but his medal index card gives his 4th Hussars number as 5506. Prior to 1907 all the line cavalry regiments numbered by regiment and so the 4th Hussars had its own series of numbers. Post Army Order 289 of December 1906 however, line cavalry were to be numbered by corps. So one number series for the Corps of Dragoons, one series for the Corps of Hussars and one series for the Corps of Lancers. I've dealt with this topic on a separate post on my Army Service Numbers 1881-1918 blog which looked at Queen's and King's Regulations for the Army. Click the link to read that post.

So the number 5506 was issued twice. Once to a 4th Hussars man when numbering was by individual regiment, and then again when numbering was by line cavalry corps. In the first case, 5506 would have been issued in about 1901 and so we can rule that date out for Alf Pateman as he would only have been about 13 years old. That means he must have joined the 4th Hussars after Army Order 289 had been published, and the number 5506 can only have been issued in the second half of April 1910. So that's when Alf joined his regiment. Fortunately, as his MIC (above) shows, the guesswork has been taken out of the equation regarding the date he transferred to the Machine Gun Corps.

The medal index card is Crown Copyright, downloaded from the Ancestry.co.uk website.

Friday, August 22, 2008

Thomas Pateman MM - enlistment date

I'm going to apply some more logic to Thomas Pateman's army service, based on my army service numbers database. Although I will be launching the armyservicenumbers.com website with infantry regiment service numbers, I do have considerable data for other branches of the British Army.

On Thomas Pateman's page I state, "I could not find Thomas on the 1901 census and it is quite possible that by this stage he had already joined the army and was serving overseas, possibly in South Africa." We know that Thomas was serving as an RSM with the 4th (Queen's Own) Hussars by October 1915 and that he was a pre-war regular soldier. His medal index card gives two numbers and it is the first, four digit number - 4582, which is important here.

Prior to 1907, the cavalry numbered individually by regiments. This changed in 1907 and they numbered by corps - so one series of numbers for the household cavalry, one for the dragoons, one for the hussars and one for the lancers.

Assuming that Thomas joined the 4th Hussars pre 1907, his number indicates an enlistment date of late 1899 or early 1900. If he enlisted after 1907, this number would have been issued to a man joining up with the Corps of Hussars around August 1909.

It is difficult to say with certainty when Thomas enlisted in the British Army, but given that he was already an RSM by 1915, my money would be on an enlistment in 1899/1900 and that he probably extended his army service and therefore was still serving with the 4th Hussars (rather than on the Reserve) when war was declared in August 1914.